(Witness: True.)

ducting experimental work with the State experiment stations upon their own account, as I understand it?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, why is it necessary to have the experimental work at those stations under the charge of an independent representative of the Department? Do you have charge of these five people that represent these other bureaus?

Doctor TRUE. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is your line of investigation independent of theirs?

Doctor TRUE. Yes. We do an entirely different kind of work in its relation to the stations generally. It is our business to supervise the expenditure of the funds given to the stations under the act of Congress of 1887, and now under the act of Congress of 1906, and to give those stations such general advice and assistance as we may to promote their interests. We also collect their publications, and on the basis of those we issue publications, both technical and popular, for general distribution throughout the country. The object of our publication is that the people in all the States may become acquainted with the experiments that are carried on by the stations in any one

State.

The CHAIRMAN. Are those publications United States Government publications ?

Doctor TRUE. United States Government publications. That is, the stations

The CHAIRMAN. Have literature of their own?

Doctor TREE. Yes; which they distribute in the States, principally. The CHAIRMAN. That is a sort of advisory and supervisory work? Doctor TRUE. Yes; that is our function.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you visit these institutions?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Personally ?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Are the duties of these five men who are there representing these other bureaus of such a character that it requires, in order to effectively carry on that work, the presence of the five representatives they have there?

Doctor TRUE. I did not quite understand your statement regarding five men. I said that these five bureaus engaged in work in connection with the experiment stations.

The CHAIRMAN. Each does not necessarily have a man there?
Doctor TRUE. Oh, no.

The CHAIRMAN. Working in harmony with the station all the time?

Doctor TRUE. No, sir. I simply meant by that that they cooperate with the stations in various enterprises. For instance, if the Bureau of Plant Industry is carrying on experiments in the introduction of a new variety of wheat, they may make arrangements with a dozen or twenty experiment stations in different parts of the country to test that wheat. Then the bureau may at certain times send one of its representatives there to see what progress is being made, notice the results, and in that way collect the results for the whole country for publication.

(Witnesses: True, Zappone.)

The CHAIRMAN. So that their representatives are not continuously employed at the respective stations?

Doctor TRUE. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Except as they have particular work that they are doing?

Doctor TRUE. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Would it be possible to have all the experimental work conducted by the Department of Agriculture under your supervision, for instance, or is it necessary to have these various bureaus, each represented on its own particular lines and working, in a sense, independently of each other?

Doctor TRUE. I think our present system is the desirable one.

The CHAIRMAN. Why could they not be combined? Just give your reasons, if there are any?

Doctor TRUE. My reason is this, that the Department of Agriculture, acting as a central organization, can oftentimes take up questions of large general import and carry them on more successfully than any individual station would carry them on. Now, in order to do that, it is necessary, I think, that we should have a bureau organization along the different lines of agriculture and experts connected with those bureaus who are familiar with the special lines of work in a broad way, and they can come in and supplement the work of the experiment stations and thus make a stronger enterprise. If the management of that work were turned over to the Office of Experiment Stations, it would mean, of course, that the Office would absorb a large share of the work which the Department is doing.

Mr. ZAPPONE. It is purely scientific work in the other bureaus? Doctor TRUE. Yes; and it would change entirely the character of our work. It does not seem to me that it would be feasible or desirable.

The CHAIRMAN. On what lines is your advisory and consulting work directed that is, what lines of investigation? Do you advise in connection with all the work of the experiment stations, or are you confined largely to some lines of investigation?

Doctor TRUE. They ask our advice on all sorts of matters; on any matter connected with their work.

The CHAIRMAN. Then there are five bureaus that are collaborating with the State experiment stations on their five independent lines, and you are likely to be consulted by the State experiment stations in regard to those questions?

Doctor TRUE. We may be; yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that the fact, in your experience?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. That you are so consulted?

Doctor TRUE. Yes. But in such cases we either consult with the bureau immediately concerned, or refer the matter altogether to that bureau.

The CHAIRMAN. Your advisory and consulting capacity embraces the whole scope of the experiment stations, does it not?

Doctor TRUE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Does that involve any duplication of work by way of revising or examining work done by other representatives of the Department of Agriculture who are collaborating with them?

(Witnesses: True, Zappone.)

Does it involve any duplication of work that is being done by you and your Bureau?

Doctor TRUE. No, sir; I do not think it does, because we examine the work of the stations in a different way.

The CHAIRMAN. From what point of view, then, do you examine this?

Doctor TRUE. We examine in a more general way. For example, if the Bureau of Plant Industry is conducting investigations regarding varieties of wheat at a station, their expert would go there and examine that work in detail with reference to that particular undertaking. Our representative would go and make inquiry in general regarding the work that was thus being done, whether it was satisfactory to the station and whether it was producing results. We would also inquire what relation that work had, with regard to the matter of expenditure, to the expenditure of the funds directly given to the station under Federal law.

The CHAIRMAN. Of these investigations, as I infer from what you have to say, one is intensive and the other is extensive?

Doctor TRUE. Ours is general and advisory.

The CHAIRMAN. One is included under the title of "intensive " and the other is extensive?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Why can not the man who makes the intensive or detailed examination carry it out in a general way and do the whole thing?

Doctor TRUE. Because he would not be prepared to undertake such work as a rule; he would be simply a specialist and would not be acquainted with the general business of the station or with the business of our office.

The CHAIRMAN. Is there any reason why he could not be acquainted with it? Why could he not have that information? Of course I do not know what the practical conditions are, but why could not one man have both these lines of information, and develop along both those lines of investigation and thus save expense?

Doctor TRUE. Because that would be too great an undertaking, I should say.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, you think it would not be possible for one man to undertake to be informed on the two branches of investigation?

Doctor TRUE. No, sir; not in the way in which it is desirable to have it done.

The CHAIRMAN. Your work, then, supplements the work done by the other investigator?

Doctor TRUE. In a sense that is so; but, of course, to understand what is the real case we would have to go more into details of the actual operations of the stations in connection with my office.

Mr. ZAPPONE. Is it not a matter of fact, Doctor True, that the experiment stations communicate direct with the other bureaus named in their cooperation work?

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

Mr. ZAPPONE. And that your duties are only supervisory as regards that work?

(Witnesses: True, Zappone.)

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

Mr. ZAPPONE. That must of necessity be so on account of the scientific nature of the work that they are conducting. They alone would have the necessary data in connection with that work.

Doctor TRUE. Yes.

(At this point Mr. Littlefield left the committee room and Mr. Samuel assumed the chair.)

Mr. SAMUEL (in the chair). Are there any duplications in your office of the work in any other Bureau?

Doctor TRUE. I do not know that there are.

Mr. SAMUEL. Do you conduct your investigations along the same lines as those of the other Bureaus or is your work corroborative or is it in a distinct line?

Doctor TRUE. The work which we do is in a distinct line.

Mr. SAMUEL. Will you please simply explain in your own way the work which your bureau does?

Doctor TRUE. Speaking first of our relation to the agricultural stations, it is our business to determine whether the Federal funds given to those stations are properly spent. In order to determine that we prepare for the Secretary schedules for reports on those expenditures, and the stations are required to keep their books in such manner that they can make up their accounts according to those schedules. They are also required to keep vouchers properly made out and marked to show what their actual items of expenditure are under the appropriation acts. Our representatives then annually visit each station and examine the books and determine whether the expenditures have been in accordance with the law, and on the basis of such examination we report to Congress annually regarding each station. In connection with those visits of inspection we hold conferences with the officers of the stations and in some cases with the boards of trustees, and advise them regarding matters relating to the organization of the stations, their buildings, and equipment and lines of work.

Mr. SAMUEL. Are those the stations of the United States Government or of the States?

Doctor TRUE. Those are stations established under State authority in connection with the so-called land-grant colleges, and they receive as endowment from the Federal Government grants of money from year to year under the so-called Hatch and Adams acts.

Mr. SAMUEL. Are those stations State agricultural colleges?

Doctor TRUE. The stations are organized under the Federal law as departments of the agricultural colleges.

Mr. SAMUEL. Then they are separate from the State agricultural colleges established by the State?

Doctor TRUE. No, sir. They are departments of those colleges. Mr. SAMUEL. Of those colleges?

Doctor TRUE. Yes, sir. Now, of course, I have not gone over all cur work, but simply one of the most important features of it.

Mr. ZAPPONE. I think, Mr. Chairman, you wish Doctor True to speak only of the experiment stations at this time, do you not? Mr. SAMUEL. Yes, sir.

(Witnesses: True, Zappone.)

Mr. ZAPPONE. You do not wish him to speak of the other work performed by his office at this time?

Mr. SAMUEL. I would ask you to give us a statement as to your work at the State experiment stations.

Doctor TRUE. I have now outlined our inspection service. Besides that we act as a sort of clearing house or exchange bureau for all the stations throughout the United States, conducting correspondence on their behalf with them and with similar stations organized in some 50 countries of the world. We collect the publications of all the stations in this country and throughout the world, and on the basis of those publications we issue publications of our own, summarizing the results of the work done everywhere. Those publications are of two classes. One is the technical class, in which we put the methods and results of experimentation in a scientific way for the benefit of the workers in all our stations and in the Department of Agriculture. Our principal publication of that class is a monthly journal called "The Experiment Station Record," which is undoubtedly the most complete summary of the work of agricultural experiment stations and kindred institutions that exists in any country. This journal is made up on the basis of work reported to us by more than a thousand institutions.

Mr. SAMUEL. Directly under your Office?

Doctor TRUE. No, sir; in different parts of the world.

Mr. SAMUEL. And you use these reports in the making up of this journal?

Doctor TRUE. Yes, sir. And it serves, as you can readily see, as a great time saver for the men who are engaged in the investigations in the different stations and also in the Department.

Mr. SAMUEL. How is it a time saver?

Doctor TRUE. The literature on the different subjects embraced in this journal is very extensive. We receive, for example, some 1,600 periodicals at the Department giving accounts of such work. Those are in 10 different languages. We go all over those and summarize them in convenient form. Besides that there are probably 1,500 reports of the experiment stations in this country and abroad, and of the Department of Agriculture, which are also summarized in this same publication. You can see that a man working in any particular line at a station would have the greatest difficulty in keeping up with that enormous mass of original publications. But by looking over our journal from month to month, which contains these brief, clear summaries of the work, he can select such things as he desires to look up in detail, and he can also at the same time get a pretty clear view of the progress of work in his own specialty simply by reading our journal.

Mr. SAMUEL. How many copies of that journal are printed?
Doctor TRUE. Our present edition is 6,500.

Mr. SAMUEL. Who receive it?

Doctor TRUE. It is sent to the libraries of the agricultural colleges and experiment stations, to about 250 other libraries in the United States, and all the scientific staff of the Department of Agriculture and of the agricultural colleges and experiment stations. It is also sent abroad to a large number of institutions with which we are in