POST OFFICE-THE WEST INDIA HOME MAILS.-QUESTION. MR. MUNTZ asked the Postmaster General, Whether his attention has been called to the fact that during the present year the West India Home Mails have arrived too late for reply by the outgoing Mail four times; and, whether any steps could be taken to obviate such inconvenience? LORD JOHN MANNERS, in reply, said, it was true that the mails had been late four times that year, but penalties were not applicable, for in no case was the Company to blame, as the delay had always arisen from causes beyond their control. Every means would be taken to prevent such inconveniences in future. METROPOLITAN POLICE-HELMETS. QUESTION. SIR EARDLEY WILMOT asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, If some arrangement could not be made whereby the police in the metropolitan and rural districts could be provided with a lighter covering for the head during the summer months than the present heavy helmet, which fits closely, and is consequently very oppressive to the men, especially where they have to walk a considerable distance to their beats? MR. ASSHETON CROSS, in reply, said, that some of the corps of the Metropolitan Police had already been provided with a lighter head dress, with light steel hoops, than the one hitherto in use, and that it was intended to extend this change to the rest of the Metropolitan Police; but the Home Office had nothing to do with the matter as affecting the county and borough police. NAVY-THE MEDITERRANEAN inforced by ships from the Channel Squadron and from the Reserve and Home force. TURKEY-THE SALONICA MURDERS— QUESTION. MR. CHILDERS asked, Why No. 4 of the Papers on the Eastern question was not among those which had been circulated that morning, although it was several times referred to in those Papers? MR. BOURKE, in reply, said, that the reason Paper No. 4 had not been presented along with the others was that it had not been found possible to prepare it sooner, and his noble Friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs was anxious that there should be no delay in laying the other Papers relating to Turkish affairs before the House. He believed that Paper No. 4, which related to the Salonica Outrage, would be presented to-morrow or next day. He assured the right hon. Gentleman that no public servants could have worked harder than had the officials of the Foreign Office during the last three weeks in the preparation of these documents. Subsequently MR. DISRAELI: With reference to the Question of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Pontefract, I beg to state that I have received a note from my noble Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, informing me that the Salonica Papers will be laid on the Table to-day. MR. MITCHELL HENRY said, that in the Turkish Papers, Part 3, there were nine despatches from Lord Derby to the Ambassador at Constantinople, extending over a period of three months -that was, from the end of January to the 10th of May. On the 10th of May the Fleet was telegraphed for by the Ambassador, and he wished to ask the Prime Minister, Whether those nine SIR CHARLES W. DILKE asked despatches were the whole of the dethe First Lord of the Admiralty, Whe-spatches which passed between the Sether the Fleet now at Besika Bay consists of the ordinary Mediterranean squadron, or whether it has been reinforced by vessels sent from home and from other stations? SQUADRON.-QUESTION. cretary of State for Foreign Affairs and the Ambassador at Constantinople during those three months, or whether there were others which had not been produced? MR. HUNT, in reply, said, the MR. DISRAELI: Sir, the nine deMediterranean squadron had been re-spatches referred to by the hon. Gentle man are not the only ones which passed | matter. I waited until the noble Lord between the Secretary of State and the opposite had expressed his intention not Ambassador during the interval of three to bring forward a Motion on the submonths that he mentions. So far as Iject. I can only say that I am myself can ascertain, the number is about 200, anxious to bring my Motion forward, beside the nine; but those despatches and I am willing to do so on any day did not refer to the matters respecting that may suit the convenience of the which the Papers are now laid before House. The Papers have been in the Parliament. With regard to the Fleet hands of hon. Members only to-day, or in Besika Bay, in the new Papers which at least I have only seen them this are to be laid on the Table to-day re- morning, and other Papers have been lating to the murders at Salonica, there mentioned which may bear very matewill be despatches which have some re- rially on the subject, and which are to ference to the sending of the ships to be presented to-day. Under these cirBesika Bay. cumstances I am entirely in the hands of the House, and I think it would not be desirable to bring forward the matter this week, and I doubt whether next Monday would give sufficient time to hon. Members to consider the Papers. THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON: I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is in a position to state what day he proposes to fix for the discussion of the Papers which have just been presented? They have only been, as the right hon. Gentleman is aware, in the hands of the House a very short time; but so far as I am able to express an opinion from a cursory perusal, it will not be necessary for me or any of my hon. Friends to ask the hon. Member for Portsmouth to forego the precedence to which he is entitled in consequence of his having given Notice of his intention to discuss the question. I shall presume, however, that it is the intention of the right hon. Gentleman to afford the hon. Member for Portsmouth, or any other hon. Member, an early opportunity of discussing the Papers, and I wish to know whether he is now able to fix a day for that discussion ? MR. DISRAELI: The Government have no wish but to consider the convenience of the House in this matter. Until I heard from the noble Lord what were his views and the views of those with whom he immediately acts, of course, I could make no arrangement. Inferring, as I now do, that the noble Lord and his Friends have no intention of proposing any Motion, I, of course, am willing to recognize the position which my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth has taken in regard to this subject, and I shall be happy to give him any day that the House may consider convenient. If the House thinks this day week convenient, that day shall be placed at the service of my hon. Friend and the House. MR. BRUCE: After what has been said by the Prime Minister, I am entirely in the hands of the House in this MR. W. E. FORSTER said, that the hon. Member for Portsmouth had given Notice that he would call attention to the Papers and move a Resolution. It would be convenient that the House should at the earliest period know the terms of the Resolution. MR. BRUCE said, he could not put the terms of his Resolution on the Notice Paper until the Papers were laid upon the Table, and until the noble Marquess had announced his intention not to take the precedence to which he was justly entitled. He should take care to put his Resolution upon the Paper tomorrow. MR. DISRAELI: Considering the period of the Session, I think it is not unreasonable that the House should be able to discuss this question on Monday. ELEMENTARY EDUCATION BILL. [BILL 155.] (Visconnt Sandon, Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Assheton Cross.) COMMITTEE. [Progress 21st July.] Bill considered in Committee. (In the Committee.) New Clause (Dissolution of School Board under certain circumstances.) ("Where application for the dissolution of a School Board is made to the Education Department by the like persons and in the like manner Board, under section twelve of 'The Elementary as an application for the formation of a School Education Act, 1870," and the Education De partment, are satisfied that no school and no lution of the School Board. "The Education Department by any such order shall,make provision for the disposal of all money furniture, books, documents, and property belonging to the School Board, and for the discharge out of the local rate of all the liabilities of the board, and such other provisions as appear to the department necessary or proper for carrying into effect the dissolution of the board. "The Education Department shall publish the order in manner directed by The Elementary Education Act, 1872,' with respect to the publication of notices, and after the date of such publication or any later date mentioned in the order, the order shall have effect as if it were enacted by Parliament, without prejudice nevertheless to the subsequent formation of a School Board in the same school district. All bye-laws previously made by the School Board shall continue in force, subject nevertheless to be revoked or altered by the local authority under this Act.")-(Mr. Pell.) Question again proposed, "That the Clause be read a second time." site for a school is in the possession or under it simply said that where the locality the control of the School Board, and that there had ample school accommodation, and is a sufficient amount of public school accommodation for the district of the School Board, where the Department was satisfied that the Education Department may, after such the school requirements were amply supnotice as they think sufficient, order the disso- plied by the locality, if the authority there which had the power of creating the school board determined by the same vote that it did not want to have that school board, the power should be given to the Department to say that the school board could exist no longer, and that it should be dissolved. The reason why the Government assented to the clause was that the whole state of the case was altered by the provisions of the Bill which had virtually received the assent of the House. Provision had been taken that in every locality hereafter a good substantial school authority should be established which might be entirely trusted to administer the law as to attendance of children at school, if not receiving efficient instruction elsewhere. The whole question, therefore, was, whether the new school attendance authority which had been created under this Bill should have what might be called the Educational police power which the Committee proposed to give it, instead of the school board when one existed already in a locality, and had no schools under its control. When the Committee considered the question calmly and after the relaxation they had enjoyed, they would, he thought, agree with him, that a great number of the speeches had been made, not perhaps altogether unnaturally, under some misapprehension. One speech after another had been based upon the supposition that the great school machinery, created by the Act of 1870, for the administration of education would be put in peril by the proposal adopted by the Government. That, however, would be found to be utterly impossible under the Amendment as proposed, if they considered it with the explanations he had now given. It was, however, absolutely essential to get rid of this supposition which had prevailed-as the Committee, however, would remember that the hon. and learned Member for Sheffield (Mr. Roebuck), who they must all regret did not now address the House so often as he used to do, delivered a speech based on that supposition, and the most important speeches against the Government proposal took the same ground. Taking for granted that the Committee would VISCOUNT SANDON said, that hon. Members had, no doubt, along with him, spent some of the time which had elapsed since the House last met in considering what was the meaning of the somewhat heated debates into which they had drifted on Thursday and Friday in last week. It was clear to him that great misapprehensions had prevailed as to the subject-matter of the clause under debate and the course taken by the Government. He was willing to take a great deal of the fault upon himself, and it was possible he did not state with sufficient clearness what was the position taken by the Government upon the new clause proposed by the hon. Member for South Leicestershire (Mr. Pell). He tried to be clear; but, after a fortnight's discussion upon education, it was possible that one's language and one's head might have become somewhat muddled. Two proposals were brought before the Committee by his hon. Friend (Mr. Pell) one was to enable every locality by a popular vote to do away with its school board, even when it had a school or school sites of its own. That was a proposal which the Government said at once they could not under any circumstances adopt. The second proposal was one of a very different character. It was this agree that he (Viscount Sandon) was right | board system all over the country, he in his explanation, they had surely now re- (Viscount Sandon) asked-Was it likely duced the matter to a comparatively small to make that system popular-and, unpoint. He did not wish to allude to what less in the long run it was popular and might be considered personal taunts ad- had the confidence of the country, it dressed to him the other day, and which would not work- if they refused to he attributed to the heat of the weather make provision for throwing off what and not to any unfriendly feeling. The he might call without offence the slough question was of too grave a character to of the system? That was to say those allow of personalities entering into it. school boards, which had lost the conThey were told that the Government fidence of a locality, which had no ought to have brought forward the pro- schools to manage, and which were not posal before the Committee on their own securing education for the childrenresponsibility, but he did not think that these, he might truly say, only brought the Government was bound to introduce discredit on the whole school board sysinto their Bill, which was necessarily a tem-made it unpopular-and would be very heavy one, every improvement in unnecessary under the new Bill, as local the Education system which appeared in authorities were constituted everywhere itself desirable. It was a different thing, who would be obliged to see that all however, when a point was once raised, children were instructed. The right and when they saw many Amendments hon. Gentleman said he feared the Deplaced on the Notice Paper, bearing on partment would be constantly asked to the point that where school boards were ascertain whether particular school unnecessary the locality ought to be able board districts had sufficient school acto remove them. The case was put forcibly commodation, and that their attention before the Government. They knew would be constantly called to school dethat since the Bill had been printed, ficiencies by the party which wished to meetings were held in different parts of keep up a board; but surely the Departthe country, not in agricultural districts ment would be only too glad to be told of only, but also in towns, and conclusions any deficiencies-that was exactly what were arrived at that the weakness of the they wanted. They wished to be told by Bill was that where a school board was the localities where there was a deficiency unnecessary provision ought to have of schools, and if the change stimulated been made for its removal. They had communications of that kind he, for one, likewise had a great number of com- would hail it with pleasure. Again, it munications to the same effect, not alone was urged over and over again that the from clerical quarters, of which they had general feeling of the country was in heard so much, but from great local favour of school boards. If that arguinterests Boards of Guardians, and ment were repeated, he would be comalso men of business connected with pelled to take a different course from that towns, asking what possible argument he had hitherto adopted in the debate. could be urged against the proposal He had cautiously avoided parading bethat unnecessary school boards might fore the House what he knew to be the be removed. Was it not, then, in the feeling of the country as to school interest of the School Board system boards; but if it were insisted that there itself that localities, where they were was no question as to their popularity, not wanted, should be able to get he should be obliged to go more into rid of the burden of school boards? the details of this matter, and to call That being so, although it was not the attention of the Committee to what, necessary for the Government to add as far as he had been able to ascerclause to clause in their Bill, still, tain, was the real opinion of the counwhen this question was so pressed try. As far as his official knowupon their attention, they were bound ledge went, and he had had communicato consider it, and when they had tions from all parts of the country on considered it they could find no argu- the subject, the large school boards were ment which would really hold water much appreciated, but he could not conagainst it. But even taking the view ceal from the Committee that the feelof the right hon. Gentleman the Mem- ing of the country as to school boards ber for Bradford, who was naturally generally was just now in a very critical very zealous on behalf of the school position, and that not only as to the VOL. CCXXX. [THIRD SERIES.] 3 N small, but as to the large ones. He | Amendments on the clause under conwould ask hon. Gentlemen opposite whe-sideration, which had been placed upon ther they thought it wise, in the interest the Paper, as they clearly evinced the of the school board system, and of edu- existence of a kindly wish to help the Gocation itself to press this system too far, vernment. Among those Amendments and whether, if school boards were ren- was one which must have weight with dered unpopular by being forced to be the Committee as coming from a Gentleretained by districts where they were not man of great experience, he meant the required, the result would not be to ren- Amendment of the right hon. Gentleman der compulsion extremely difficult? If the Member for Chester (Mr. Dodson). more were still said as to the popularity As, however, it stood on the Paper it of school boards, he should have to could not be accepted by the Governquote at length the opinions of Her Ma- ment, because it would virtually make it jesty's Inspectors during the last two or impossible to allow any school board to three years on the subject. He very be dissolved, and thus would frustrate much preferred, however, not to enter the object of the Amendment of his hon. into that question, but to confine him- Friend the Member for Leicestershire. self to the cases of unnecessary school It could only, under the Amendment, be boards where there was sufficient school dissolved, if it was the opinion of the accommodation for the locality. He had Department that its maintenance was quoted the case of a right hon. Gentle- unsuited to the requirements of the man opposite as to an unnecessary school education, and was of no advantage to board in a small rural district; he would education-and that would be a bold now refer to the case of a borough of thing for the Department in any case over 10,000 inhabitants, giving, how-to say. They considered, however, that ever, no clue to its name, not to avoid the Amendment contained the germ of contradiction, but to prevent unnecessary a proposal which might be accepteddiscussion. The borough in question had sufficient voluntary schools and a school board for the sake of compulsion only, and there were several towns in its neighbourhood which had not school boards. The borough had a very good municipality, in which all the leading people took part. Now did they suppose that there the burden of a school board would be tolerated, when it was seen that in the neighbouring districts the advantages of compulsory attendance were secured without the burden of an unnecessary school board? He could not but think that it was rather a bold thing for hon. Gentlemen opposite to protest against the destruction of any institution, simply on the ground that it existed; surely this was an argument, which if it could be held at the present day anywhere, would be more in keeping on the Conservative side of the House; and he confessed that he had heard with infinite astonishment such a high Tory sentiment from the other side as that an institution which was only six years in existence ought not to be touched, on the ground that it was an existing institution, although there would then exist other adequate machinery for doing its work. Well, Her Majesty's Government had observed with pleasure the number of Viscount Sandon to the effect that it was the duty of the Department to take all the circumstances of the case into consideration, and if they should be of opinion that the maintenance of the school board was not necessary for the purposes of education in the district, then that they should take action in the matter. That Amendment, he thought, would secure what both sides seemed to desirenamely, that if a school board was doing its work well, the Department should hold the hand of the destroyer; but that if it should be shown to be unnecessary, it might be dissolved. The proposal would tend to concentrate duties in the hands of the existing local authorities. It would enable people to choose the authorities containing the best men, and thus avoid the worry and expense of unnecessary elections. He trusted the hon. Member for South Leicestershire would agree to the proposition. If hon. Gentleman opposite would not consent to adopt the proposal, the Government would willingly assume the responsibility of the whole matter, and would have no doubt of what the opinion of the counties would be respecting it. They would only congratulate themselves if their opponents nailed their colours to the mast in opposing this reasonable proposition, and appeared before the |