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and spend their breath as vain upon a man, who can hear indeed, and understand somewhat, but muft not follow his own understanding? If they fay, that you must Judge for your felves; ask them, Whether this be the Doctrine of their Church, that private men may Judge for themfelves? Whether this do not refolve our Faith into a private Spirit, which they fay, is the Proteftant Herefie, and the Foundation of Proteftant Uncertainty? If they once open this Gap to Hereticks into the Church, there is great danger that more will run out at it, than will come in; and it well if the Church it self stays behind : for what becomes of the Church of Rome, if all their glorious Cant of the Infallibility of Church, and Popes, and General Councils, be at last refolved into a private Spirit! While these men go about to difpute Hereticks into their Church, they unavoidably give up the Cause of the Church, and of Infallibility; which is the way to difpute a great many good Catholicks out of it, who are kept there only by the power of a blind and implicite Faith. Here then let our Proteftant fix his foot, and not ftir an inch, till they disown Infallibility, and confefs, that every man can and must Judge for himself in matters of Religion, according to the Proofs that are offered to him. For will a wife man difpute with one, who he knows banters him all the while? who appeals to his private Judg ment (as all men do, who difpute with one another) and at the fame time cries down this private Spirit as the cause of Schifms, and Herefies, and Blafphemies, and every thing that is evil: no man of any Spirit, but will fcorn to dispute with one who intends only to put a trick on him, and to out-wit him if he can; and in truth it is no more to endeavour to dispute a man into Popery, when the Fundamental Principle of Popery That we must not Reason and Difpute, but Believe;hat we must take

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our Faith upon the Authority of the Church, without asking any questions about it. There are two or three things, which may be answered to this.

1. That though Difputing be not a proper way for Papifts to take, yet it is the only way, that can be taken with Proteftants who are all for Difputing, and will believe nothing without a Reason; and therefore Proteftants ought not to blame Papifts for Difputing, unless they would be good Catholicks without it. Now in anfwer to this, I have fomething to fay to Papifts, and fomething to Protestants.

1. As for the Papifts, what neceffity foever they be in of Difputing, I defire to know, with what face they can reproach Proteftants with adhering to their own private Judgments, when they themselves are fuch zealous Difputants, which is an Appeal to every private mans Judg. ment: If ever they make any Converts, they must be beholden to mens private Judgments for it, for I think men cannot change their Opinions, without exercifing a private Judgment about it; and I fuppofe when they difpute with men to make them Papifts, they intend to convert them by their own private Judgments. Now what difference is there between mens ufing their private Judgments to turn Papists, or to turn Proteftants? One indeed may be falfe, and the other true; but private Judg ment is private Judgment ftill: and if it be fo great a fault for men to use their own private Judgments, it is as great a fault in a Papift, as it is in a Proteftant. So that at least, as to Converts, the Church of Rome has no advantage in this particular over Proteftant Churches; fome by the exercise of their own Reafon and Judgment, go over to the Church of Rome, and fome to the Church of

England; fom difputed into Popery, and fome into

Proteftantifm: and therefore for the fake of their beloved

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Converts, and their beloved Difputations, they ought to be more favourable to a private Spirit: The truth is, by difputing with Hereticks, they give up their Cause, and confefs, that in all Difputes of Religion, their lies an Appeal to every mans private Judgment and Confcience; and fhould they lose this Point by their Difputing, all the Converts they make, cannot recompence fuch a loss.

2. As for Proteftants, though they have no other way to satisfie themselves, or to convince others, but by Reafon and Difcourfe; yet this is no reason why they fhould Dispute with thofe men who difown the Judg ment of Reason, as a private Spirit: For why fhould I Difpute with any man who ufes fuch Arguments to con vince me, as he himself does not think a fufficient Reason of Faith? Ask then one of thefe Difputers, who alledges Scripture, Reafon and Antiquity, to prove any Dotrines of the Romish Faith, Do you, Sir, believe Tranfubftantiation, the Worfhip of Images, the Invocation of Saints, Purgatory, Mafs for the Dead, upon the bare Authority of thefe Scriptures and Fathers, you have produced for them? if thefe Doctrines were not Defined by the Church, fhould you think thefe Arguments fufficient to prove them? or could you fuppofe, the Church had Defined the contrary, fhould you think the Arguments good ftill? In fhort, can any Reason, any Authority of Scripture, or Fathers, be any Foundation for a Divine Faith, but only the Authority of the Church? He that fays they can, is no Papift; and he that fays they cannot, confeffes, that he ufes fuch Arguments, as he himself does not build his Faith upon: If you will believe them; you may; but though you do, you are no found Believer, without refolving your Faith folely into the Authority of the Church. And, I think, he muft love

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Difputing well, who will dispute with fuch men as these; and those must have a good degree of Affurance, who will be troublesome with their Disputes, after such a difcovery. The end of Difputing, I fuppofe, is either to convince, or to be convinced: but fhould you answer. and baffle all fuch a man's Arguments, if he be modeft, it may be he may blush a little, but is not to be moved; for his Faith, after all, is not built upon thefe Arguments, but upon Church-Authority: and it is to no purpose for you to fuffer your felf to be convinced by thefe Arguments, for it will not make you a good Catholick, with out refolving your Faith wholly into the Authority of the Church. It is certainly a very furprizing thing for a Proteftant to be difputed into Popery; for as foon as he is converted, he must renounce the very means of his Conversion: He must use his own Judgment to turn Papist, and as foon as he is turned, he must renounce his own Judgment, and confefs it to be of no Authority: Now though it may be such a private Judgment as leads a man to Popery, may as well deserve to be renounced, as any; yet it is an odd kind of contradiction, to renounce our own private Reafon and Judgment, and yet to own our Converfion; methinks fuch men fhould renounce their Converfion too at the fame time they renounce their Reason; for if their Converfion be good, it is a fign their Judgment was fo; but if their Judgment be not fit to be trufted, methinks this fhould make them queftion their Converfion: And therefore they should either maintain the Reputation of their Judgment and Converfion together, and then they cannot be good Catholicks, while they adhere to their own Judgment, or they fhould renounce them both together; nay, they must not only renounce their own Judgments, as foon as they are converted, but they muft renounce the Authority and

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Validity of thofe very Arguments whereby they are Converted, whether from Scripture, Reafon, or Fathers; they must confefs, that these Arguments are not a fufficient Foundation for a Divine Faith, without the Authority of the Church, for it is a dangerous thing to allow any Authority to Scripture or Fathers, without the Church, for that may make men Hereticks; and yet, I fuppofe, when Hereticks are converted by these Arguments, it must be the force of the Arguments, and not the Authority of the Church, which converts them, unless they believed the Authority of the Church before they were converted, and that was a little too early for it. Now methinks when Proteftants turn Papifts, as they pretend, from the conviction of their own Reason and Judgment, and as foon as they are converted, are taught, that there is no relying upon their own Judgment, and that the Reasons whereby they were converted, are not good in themselves without Church Authority; if it were pof fible for them ever to use their Reafon more after fuch a Change, it would certainly make them disown their Converfion; which, it feems, was the effect of a very fallible Judgment, and very uncertain and inauthentick Reason.

II. There is another pretence for thefe Difputes, which may seem to answer this difficulty, that the intention of thefe Difputes, is onely to lead you to the Infallible Church, and fet you upon a Rock; and then it is very natural to renounce your own Judgment, when you have an infallible Guide. Our own Judgment then must bring us to the infallible Guide, and when we have found him, we have no farther ufe for our own Judgment. I anfwer,

1. Should we grant this, it puts an end to all the particular Difputes of Religion between us and the Church C

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