Αθ. Λέγουσι πού τινες ὡς πάντα ἐστὶ τὰ πράγματα γιγ νόμενα, καὶ γενόμενα, καὶ γενησόμενα, τὰ μὲν, φύσει, τὰ δὲ, τέχνη, τὰ δὲ διὰ τύχην.

ΚΛ. Οὐκοῦν καλῶς ;

Αθ. Εικός γέ τοί που σοφοὺς ἄνδρας ὀρθῶς λέγειν. ἑπόμενοί γε μὴν αὐτοῖς, σκεψώμεθα τοὺς ἐκεῖθεν, τί ποτε καὶ τυγχάνουσι διανοούμενοι.

ΚΛ. Πάντως.

ΑΘ. Ἔοικε, φασί, τὰ μὲν μέγιστα αὐτῶν καὶ κάλλιστα ἀπεργάζεσθαι φύσιν καὶ τύχην, τὰ δὲ σμικρότερα, τέχνην· ἣν δὴ παρὰ φύσεως λαμβάνουσαν τὴν τῶν μεγάλων καὶ πρώτων γένεσιν ἔργων, πλάττειν καὶ τεκταίνεσθαι πάντα τὰ σμικρότερα, ἃ δὴ τεχνικὰ πάντες προσαγορεύομεν. ΚΛ. Πῶς λέγεις ;

ΑΘ. Ωδ' ἔτι σαφέστερον ἐρῶ. πῦρ καὶ ὕδωρ καὶ γῆν καὶ ἀέρα, φύσει πάντα εἶναι καὶ τύχῃ φασί· τέχνῃ δὲ οὐδὲν τούτων. καὶ τὰ μετὰ ταῦτα αὖ σώματα, γῆς τε καὶ ἡλίου καὶ σελήνης, ἄστρων τε πέρι, διὰ τούτων γεγονέναι παντελῶς ὄντων ἀψύχων. τύχῃ δὲ φερόμενα τῇ τῆς δυνάμεως ἕκαστα ἑκάστων, ᾗ ξυμπέπτωκεν ἁρμόττοντα οἰκείως πως,

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3. Εικός γέ τοί που. This is the usual Socratic or Platonic irony. “ It may be likely, at least, that these wise people talk correctly.” Εἰκός γε, “ likely, plausible, probable, at least, if not certain.” Γέ τοί που is a combination of particles deserving special notice. Γὲ has its usual limiting sense as given above ; τοι, like δὴ, confirms and strengthens the limitation, while Tov seems in the usual manner to diminish the positiveness of the expression by way of appeal to the party addressed. “Surely (τοι) may we say, may we not (που), that these wise men talk plausibly at least (ye), to use no stronger term." 4. τοὺς ἐκεῖθεν. Haud dubie (says Ast) scribendum est, τὸ εκεῖθεν, quod ex illo consequitur. We have but little doubt, on the other hand, that Ast is wrong. The old and established reading, τοὺς ἐκεῖθεν, may be rendered "those from, or of that school," namely, their followers, those who expand and explain the doctrine more fully, as in the next answer.

5. πῦρ καὶ ὕδωρ καὶ γῆν. See Note XII., App.

6. φύσει . . . τέχνη. See Note XIII., App.

θερμὰ ψυχροῖς, ἢ ξηρὰ πρὸς ὑγρά, καὶ μαλακὰ πρὸς σκληρά, καὶ πάντα ὁπόσα τῇ τῶν ἐναντίων κράσει κατὰ τύχην ἐξ ἀνάγκης συνεκεράσθη, ταύτῃ καὶ κατὰ ταῦτα οὕτω γεγεν νηκέναι τόν τε οὐρανὸν ὅλον καὶ πάντα ὁπόσα κατ' οὐρα νόν· καὶ ζῶα αὖ καὶ φυτὰ ξύμπαντα, ὡρῶν πασῶν ἐκ τού. των γενομένων, οὐ διὰ νοῦν, φασίν, οὐδὲ διά τινα θεὸν οὐδὲ διὰ τέχνην, ἀλλὰ, ὃ λέγομεν, φύσει καὶ τύχῃ. τέχ νην δὲ ὕστερον ἐκ τούτων ὑστέραν γενομένην, αὐτὴν θνητὴν ἐκ θνητῶν, ὕστερα γεγεννηκέναι παιδιάς τινας, ἀλη θείας οὐ σφόδρα μετεχούσας, ἀλλὰ εἴδωλ ̓ ἄττα ξυγγενῆ ἑαυτῶν, οἱ' ἡ γραφικὴ γεννᾷ καὶ μουσικὴ, καὶ ὅσαι ταύταις εἰσὶ συνέριθοι τέχναι· αἱ δ' εἴτι καὶ σπουδαῖον ἄρα γεννῶσι τῶν τεχνῶν, εἶναι ταύτας ὁπόσαι τῇ φύσει ἐκοίνωσαν τὴν αὑτῶν δύναμιν· οἷον αὖ ἰατρικὴ καὶ γεωργικὴ καὶ γυμναστική. καὶ δὴ καὶ τὴν πολιτικὴν σμικρόν τι μέρος εἶ. ναί φασι κοινωνοῦν φύσει, τέχνῃ δὲ, τὸ πολύ. οὕτω δὲ καὶ τὴν νομοθεσίαν πᾶσαν, οὐ φύσει, τέχνῃ δέ· ἧς οὐκ ἀλη θεῖς εἶναι τὰς θέσεις.

ΚΛ. Πῶς λέγεις ;

ΑΘ. Θεούς, ὦ μακάριε, εἶναι πρῶτόν φασιν οὗτοι τέχνη, οὐ φύσει, ἀλλά τισι νόμοις· καὶ τούτους ἄλλους ἄλλοις, ὅπη ἕκαστοι ἑαυτοῖσι συνωμολόγησαν νομοθετούμενοι· καὶ δὴ καὶ τὰ καλὰ, φύσει μὲν ἄλλα εἶναι, νόμῳ δὲ ἕτερα· τὰ δὲ δὴ δίκαια οὐδ ̓ εἶναι τοπαράπαν φύσει, ἀλλ' ἀμφισβητοῦν. τας διατελεῖν ἀλλήλοις καὶ μετατιθεμένους ἀεὶ ταῦτα· ἃ δ ̓ ἂν μετάθωνται καὶ ὅταν, τότε κύρια ἕκαστα εἶναι, γιγνόμενα τέχνῃ καὶ τοῖς νόμοις, ἀλλ' οὐ δή τινι φύσει. ταῦτ ̓ ἐστίν, ὦ φίλοι, ἅπαντα ἀνδρῶν σοφῶν παρὰ νέοις ἀνθρώποις, ἰδιωτῶν τε καὶ ποιητῶν, φασκόντων εἶναι τὸ δικαιότατον ὅ, τί τις ἂν νικᾷ βιαζόμενος. ὅθεν ἀσέβειαί τε ἀνθρώποις ἐμπίπτουσι νέοις, ὡς οὐκ ὄντων θεῶν οἵους ὁ νό μος προστάττει διανοεῖσθαι δεῖν· στάσεις τε διὰ ταῦτα, ἑλκόντων πρὸς τὸν κατὰ φύσιν ὀρθὸν βίον, ὅς ἐστι τῇ

7. νομοθεσίαν πᾶσαν. See Note XIV., App.

8. ἑλκόντων. The article τῶν would seem to be required here be

ἀληθείᾳ κρατοῦντα ζῆν τῶν ἄλλων, καὶ μὴ δουλεύοντα ἑτέροισι κατὰ νόμον.

ΚΛ. Οἷον διελήλυθας, ὦ ξένε, λόγον, καὶ ὅσην λώβην ἀνθρώπων νέων δημοσίᾳ πόλεσί τε καὶ ἰδίοις οἴκοις.

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ΑΘ. 'Αληθῆ μέντοι λέγεις, ὦ Κλεινία. τί οὖν οἴει χρῆναι δρᾶν τὸν νομοθέτην, οὕτω τούτων πάλαι παρεσκευασ. μένων ; ἢ μόνον ἀπειλεῖν στάντα ἐν τῇ πόλει ξύμπασι τοῖς ἀνθρώποις, ὡς, εἰ μὴ φήσουσιν εἶναι θεοὺς καὶ διανοηθή σονται, δοξάζοντες τοιούτους οἵους φησὶν ὁ νόμος; καὶ περὶ καλῶν καὶ δικαίων, καὶ περὶ ἁπάντων τῶν μεγίστων, ὁ αὐτὸς λόγος, ὅσα τε πρὸς ἀρετὴν τείνει καὶ κακίαν, ὡς δεῖ ταῦτα οὕτω πράττειν, διανοουμένους ὅπηπερ ἂν ὁ νομοθέτης ὑφηγήσηται γράφων· ὃς δ ̓ ἂν μὴ παρέχηται ἑαυτὸν τοῖς νόμοις εὐπειθῆ, τὸν μὲν δεῖν τεθνάναι, τὸν δέ τινα πληγαῖς καὶ δεσμοῖς, τὸν δὲ, ἀτιμίαις, ἄλλους δὲ πενίαις κολάζεσθαι καὶ φυγαῖς· πειθὼ δὲ τοῖς ἀνθρώποις, ἅμα fore ἑλκόντων, although there is no authority of manuscripts for it. It seems to refer to φασκόντων above. "Hence factions or quarrels arise by reason of these things, while they violently drag (the young) to that mode of life which is right by nature (that is, in their opinion), which consists, in reality, in so living as to have power over others, and to be in subjection to none by virtue of law." In this metaphorical expression, ἑλκόντων, Plato seems to have had an eye to some of those violent contests which Homer so vividly describes as taking place over a dead body, in which both sides are pulling with all their might, the one to carry off, the other to rescue; as in the battle over the body of Patroclus, in the sixteenth book of the Iliad. He rises, however, infinitely above Homer in his subject. It is not the dead body of the slain hero which is here the object of contention, but the living soul of the young man that the atheistic crew are seeking to drag down to their own kingdom of darkness; or, to accommodate the language of the Grecian poet to a sense far beyond his highest conceptions, we may say, with a slight change of the verse, Iliad, xxii., 161 :

̓Αλλὰ περὶ χυχῆς μάρνανται ἀθανάτοιο.

9. See Note XV., App.

10. πειθὼ δὲ τοῖς ἀνθρώποις. Connect this with ἢ μόνον ἀπειλεῖν, about ten lines back; and then, by leaving out all that is explanatory

τιθέντα αὐτοῖς τοὺς νόμους, μηδεμίαν ἔχειν τοῖς λόγοις προσάπτοντα εἰς δύναμιν ἡμεροῦν ;

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ΚΛ. Μηδαμῶς, ὦ ξένε· ἀλλ' εἴπερ τυγχάνει γε οὖσα καὶ σμικρὰ πειθώ τις περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα, δεῖ μηδαμή κάμνειν τόν γε ἄξιον καὶ σμικροῦ νομοθέτην, ἀλλὰ πᾶσαν, τὸ λεγόμενον, φωνὴν ἱέντα, τῷ παλαιῷ νόμῳ ἐπίκουρον γίγνεσθαι λόγῳ, ὡς εἰσὶ θεοί, καὶ ὅσα νῦν δὴ διῆλθες σύ, καὶ δὴ καὶ νόμῳ αὐτῷ βοηθῆσαι καὶ τέχνῃ· ὡς ἐστὸν φύσει ἢ φύσεως οὐχ ήττον, εἴπερ νοῦ γέ ἐστι γεννήματα, κατὰ λό. γον ὀρθὸν ὃν σύ τε λέγειν μοι φαίνῃ καὶ ἐγώ σοι πιστεύω τανῦν.

ΑΘ. Ω προθυμότατε Κλεινία, τί δ' ; οὐ χαλεπά τέ ἐστι ξυνακολουθεῖν λόγοις εἰς πλήθη λεγόμενα, μήκη τε αυτ κέκτηται διωλύγια ;

or parenthetical, the contrast may be exhibited thus: "Or ought he to threaten them only, that unless they shall say, &c. ; but not, by attaching it to his arguments, exercise persuasion towards men at the same time that he lays down the laws, so that (by such persuasive arguments) he may render them as mild, or as well-disposed towards the laws as possible.” Δὲ here may be rendered "and," which, in a similar connexion in English, is sometimes a disjunctive particle : “ Shall he threaten, &c., and shall he not persuade ?” Or the disjunctive force of dɛ may be better brought out, and the connexion with the first part of the sentence at the same time preserved, by rendering it "instead of," thus: " Ought he only to threaten instead of using persuasion?” &c. In this construction, ἔχειν, as well as ἀπειλεῖν, will depend on οἴει χρῆναι, about twelve lines back.

11. πᾶσαν φωνὴν ἱέντα, “ letting out all his voice,” that is, omitting nothing which may tend to produce conviction. A proverbial expression, for which see Erasmus, Adag., p. 788. It seems somewhat to resemble a nautical metaphor, of which the Greek poets were very fond, and of which we have a striking example, Eurip., Medea, 280:

Εχθροὶ γὰρ ἐξίασι πάντα δὴ κάλων.

"For my enemies let out all their rope," that is, "are attacking me under full sail, and straining every nerve.”

12. μήκη τε αὖ. There is a harshness here in consequence of the sudden change from the participle to the indicative mode κέκτηται.

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ΚΛ. Τί δέ, ὦ ξένε ; περὶ μέθης" μὲν καὶ μουσικῆς οὕτω μακρὰ λέγοντας ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς περιεμείναμεν, περὶ θεῶν δὲ καὶ τῶν τοιούτων οὐχ ὑπομενοῦμεν ; καὶ μὴν καὶ νομοθε σίᾳ γέ ἐστί που τῇ μετὰ φρονήσεως μεγίστη βοήθεια, διότι τὰ περὶ νόμους προστάγματα ἐν γράμμασι τεθέντα, ὡς δώσοντα εἰς πάντα χρόνον ἔλεγχον, πάντως ἠρεμεῖ .15 ὥστε οὔτ ̓ εἰ χαλεπὰ κατ ̓ ἀρχὰς ἀκούειν ἐστὶ φοβητέον, ἅ γ' ἔστ ται καὶ τῷ δυσμαθεῖ πολλάκις ἐπανιόντι σκοπεῖν· οὔτε εἰ μακρά, ὠφέλιμα δέ, διὰ ταῦτα λόγον οὐδαμῆ ἔχει, οὐδὲ ὅσιον ἔμοιγε εἶναι φαίνεται τὸ μὴ οὐ βοηθεῖν τούτοις τοῖς λόγοις πάντα ἄνδρα κατὰ δύναμιν.

ΜΕΓ. Αριστα, ὦ ξένε, δοκεῖ λέγειν Κλεινίας.

Αθ. Καὶ μάλα γε, ὦ Μέγιλλε· ποιητέον τε ὡς λέγει.

This, however, must be rendered as though it were κεκτημένα, if, indeed, this is not the true reading.

13. περὶ μέθης. This refers to discussions in the first and third books of this treatise, which had been continued at great length.

14. περιμένω, “to linger around a subject—to wait one's own leisure.” ὑπομένω, “ to endure, to wait with patience.” After ύπομε νοῦμεν supply περιμένειν, thus : οὐχ ὑπομενοῦμεν περιμένειν, “ shall we not endure to wait ?” or, taken adverbially, “ shall we not wait patiently?" There is evidently a case of paronomasia, or play upon words here.

15. ἠρεμεῖ. "Are altogether silent." Compare this with the myth respecting the God Theuth in the Phædrus, 275, D., where oral instruction is commended, as better than that of books, and doubts are suggested, whether, after all, the art of writing has been of real service to mankind : ὡς ἀληθῶς ὅμοιον (γραφή) ζωγραφίᾳ· καὶ γὰρ τὰ ἐκείνης ἕστηκεν μὲν ὡς ζῶντα, ἐὰν δ' ἀνέρῃ τι, σεμνῶς πάνυ σιγᾷ. ταὐτὸν δὲ καὶ ἡ γραφή. ἐάν τι ἔρῃ βουλόμενος μαθεῖν, ἕν τι σημαίνει μόνον ταύτὸν ἀεί. καὶ οὐκ ἐπίσταται λέγειν οἷς δεῖ γε καὶ μή· πλημμελούμενος δὲ καὶ οὐκ ἐν δίκη λοιδορηθεὶς τοῦ πατρὸς ἀεὶ δεῖται βοηθοῦ. αὐτὸς γὰρ οὔτ ̓ ἀμύνασθαι οὔτε βοηθῆσαι δυνατὸς αὐτῷ. In the Gorgias, 525, Β., this term peμe is applied, in a somewhat different manner from this, to the victorious party or argument that holds its gronnd in quietness, after the rest have been silenced : ἀλλ' ἐν τοσούτοις λόγοις τῶν ἄλλων ἐλεγχομένων οὗτος ἠρεμεῖ ὁ λόγος.

1. ἐπανιόντι. Like a gerund, “ Sepius animo agitando.”